Curse

Rites · Feb 17, 2011, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellatrixa

The community is elitist (if you hadn't noticed) and people are made to feel like crap if they don't have at least half of their HoM filled, if they haven't completed all the elite areas, if they don't know what a BDS is or how much an ecto is.

the only part of your rant that actually made sense

Hobbs · Feb 17, 2011, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I'm sorry, but if you make a bunch of characters, it's your responsibility to bring them through the game..

What? No. I play Guild Wars to have fun, I don't have any responsibilities whatsoever to anything in this game. Sure I find playing through the story fun the first time when I don't know the plot and I watch the cinematics but playing the same missions over and over isn't fun. When I make a character I want to play it how I want to play it not be forced to trawl through content I know backwards for insignificant rewards.

I rarely pay for runs but I often run myself through areas in the quickest way possible (completed both NF and EoTN start to finish over the last 3 days on my Sin) and I don't think that makes me lazy it just means the missions dint interest me. They don't interest me because I've done them many times over but if a newer player isn't interested in Venta Cemetary Ans wants to get to end game content quickly who're we to judge how they tailor their own playin experience. Play the game how you want and let other do the same.

As an aside, my /age is 65 months and i've never had to put someone on Ignore for more than 2 minutes and my list is currently empty. How do you guys manage to accrue so much animosity?

subman247 · Feb 17, 2011, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

No, you like to complain because you have the rosy scent of nostalgia surrounding you, but of course that's not the way it really is.

New players have it easier? You mean like PuGs requiring rank 10 PvE titles and associated skills to even consider a noob player?

Or how about the vast number of skills, their interactions, and the fact there's four more base professions then when the game first was released?

And a new player paying every last gold piece to a pro runner only to get to Droknar's Forge with his ten skills and realize that armor costs money and materials, that unlike every other MMO out there only weapons drop?

How about all that sweet gear, that, thanks to the relative ease oldschool players have of acquiring funds, are super-inflated way out of proportion to their actual value?

No, new players have it exceedingly difficult when compared to the oldschool players, who have grown into the game, are accustomed to the meta and its changes, and know how everything works. GW2 will level the playing field for old and new GW1 players alike, and of course there won't be ANY discrimination based on how many legacy items a player has unlocked from GW1... lol

I suppose i should have clarified what i meant by "easier". New players have it easier coming into the game today than people like me did when we started when the game first came out. When i started there was only one campaign which means limited skills, there was limited resources such as wiki and guru to help when we got stuck or had a question, we didnt have heros (granted PuGs were everywhere at the time but most lacked the skill needed to beat missions first time through. Of course Oldschool players have it easier now but when we were noobs it was harder.

On the note of it being a resposiblity to play throuh the game all the way with each character...thats how some choose to play. I for one have a full time job, play countless other games and not to mention personal life. I literally dont have time to play all the way through 4 campaigns 8 times.

The lore of this game is great but the fact is there are some people who dont care about it and that is just fine. WHO CARES IF NOOBS DONT KNOW LORE? They are NOOBS! It takes time to get acustomed to the game...after most get the gear, titles and cash they want then maybe they will go back and enjoy the story. And if not then o'well

Xiaquin · Feb 17, 2011, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelWJedi

Just because you think something doesnt make it true! next thing you know i bet you'll say those that buy the item nic wants one week are lazy too! rofl
i played this game a long time rerolled a crap load of chars. and just cause i buy a run or two DOESNT NOT MAKE ME LAZY!

Buying anything that can be traded isn't lazy, but dungeon runs, for example, would be, because those push titles. I should mention that I'm not talking about point-to-point running.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

What? No. I play Guild Wars to have fun, I don't have any responsibilities whatsoever to anything in this game.

I wasn't implying that if you make a character, you have an automatic obligation, but when there's a goal in mind, why not play toward it? If there is such a desire to get a reward but no desire to play the content, is that really fun at that point? Does the reward still mean anything?

Kaleban · Feb 17, 2011, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by subman247

I suppose i should have clarified what i meant by "easier". New players have it easier coming into the game today than people like me did when we started when the game first came out. When i started there was only one campaign which means limited skills, there was limited resources such as wiki and guru to help when we got stuck or had a question, we didnt have heros (granted PuGs were everywhere at the time but most lacked the skill needed to beat missions first time through. Of course Oldschool players have it easier now but when we were noobs it was harder.

Not to belabor the point, and I'm not trying to personally attack or anything, but you may want to re-examine your definitions of "easier."

One campaign, with content balanced for it

Limited skills, which included the lack of a PvP split, and said skills were also limited to the AI, meaning an easier time to create builds to cope.

Wiki and Guru are still good sources, and when the game came out the lack of the later additional levels of complexity meant not as much information to assimilate.

Heroes, well they're only as useful as how many skills you've unlocked, a noob who hasn't unlocked any elites and has little cashflow at the beginning to unlock new skills, much less all ten professions is actually better off with Henchmen for quite some time.

Skill level of PuGs is always in doubt, this is not a function of age of the game but simply the disorganized and chaotic nature of strangers attempting to cooperate.

I'm sure there are more reasons, but people new to the game today have a much higher learning curve given the extra content, extra options and choices, and lack of players in the majority of the game. As an example, I decided to get on my Derv today, and do some of the earlier missions to round out Guardian in Prophecies, and there were MAYBE 2 or 3 players in any given outpost if I was lucky, and it was of course much simpler to H/H it, because I've unlocked all the Elite skills and a considerable amount of the regular skills.

TL;DR version is that noobs have a much more complex and difficult process than ANY "oldschool" players EVER did in adjusting to the game's system and environs.

Kaleban · Feb 17, 2011, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Buying anything that can be traded isn't lazy, but dungeon runs, for example, would be, because those push titles. I should mention that I'm not talking about point-to-point running.

Its a game, meant for diversion and enjoyment. If someone wants to spend their time buying full dungeon runs because they'd rather tag along and watch than participate, that's not lazy.

Lazy is calling in sick to work when you're hungover, or skipping class because you procrastinated on studying for a test.

Lazy in any reasonable sense of the word does not apply to VIDEOGAMES of any stripe. Full stop.

TheGizzy · Feb 17, 2011, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by subman247

I suppose i should have clarified what i meant by "easier". New players have it easier coming into the game today than people like me did when we started when the game first came out. When i started there was only one campaign which means limited skills, there was limited resources such as wiki and guru to help when we got stuck or had a question, we didnt have heros (granted PuGs were everywhere at the time but most lacked the skill needed to beat missions first time through. Of course Oldschool players have it easier now but when we were noobs it was harder.

Allow me to rewrite this for you a bit...

"I suppose I should have clarified what I meant by "easier." New gamers have it easy coming into the gaming world today than people like me did when we started when video games first came out. When I started, there was one game - Pong - which you played in black and white on whatever TV set you could convince your parents to let you hook it to. There were no resources such as Wiki and Guru to help when our paddles got stuck or the switch from 1-player to 2-player snapped off. Of course, oldschool gamers have it easier now, but when we were noobs, it was harder."

Or we could do this...

"I suppose I should have clarified what I meant by "easier." New MMO gamers have it easy coming into the MMORPG world today than people like me did when we started when MUDs first came out. When I started, we had text-based MUDs in which we RPG'd. You hooked into a BBS, or into IRC, or you stuck a big-ass floppy into a noisy drive and you actually had to TYPE. 'You walk into a room. To the north is an ogre. To the east is a princess. What do you wish to do?' - and there was no Wiki or Guru to tell us that while the loading instructions said to use commands like North, South, East and West... the programmer screwed up in this section and you actually had to type Forward, or Right to continue on. Of course, oldschool gamers have it easier now, but when we were noobs, it was harder."

When I was a kid, the cliche was about how our parents walked to school uphill, both ways, in 5' of snow.

It was annoying then, it's annoying now.

EVERY generation - whether generation is defined by age, by professional experience, by time-in game, whatever - thinks they had it soooooo much harder than the ones that came before or follow after. You can't conceptualize just how revolutionary PacMan was... or what it was like to hang out in arcades and hope you had enough quarters in your pocket to beat whatever high score was won since the last time you were there. I guess I could reminisce about how we had to walk to the mall uphill, both ways, in 5' of snow... *chuckling* Or I could talk about how my first computer - which could maybe, MAYBE store one of the pictures I took today on my digital camera - cost more than the best gaming laptop on the market today... and what it was like to try and convince our parents that computers really were where the future lay, and that spending money on them really wasn't the complete waste they insisted it was.

We're all nostalgic about our "old days." We either idealize them, or we paint them as so much worse than "kids/gamers/whatever today" could ever imagine. In the end, it's all crap. A thing is as hard or as easy as it is for the person doing it... now, then, tomorrow it doesn't matter. Some would find today's GW much more challenging than GW at launch. Some find it easier. Some just wouldn't have an opinion either way.

But the whole "back in the day" thing is just a waste... and it is irrelevant, both to the one stuck in the past and the one concerned only with the present.

Next Top Runner · Feb 17, 2011, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I agreed with everything.

Especially with the part about nerd runners getting their builds from PVX and thinking they are pro.

Epic.

Hobbs · Feb 17, 2011, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Next Top Runner

I agreed with everything.

Especially with the part about nerd runners getting their builds from PVX and thinking they are pro.

Epic.

I don't understand why you care what other people do ingame and whether or not they think they're "pro". How does it impact you in the slightest?

Mayh3m · Feb 17, 2011, 03:22 PM // 15:22

I recently came back to GW with one of my friend, we used to play back in 06 and wow the game changed a lot. We did stop not long after faction came out and now there's a lot of new stuff for us to discover. While I agree with you that most people will be playing for GW2 HoM, we still find the time to enjoy the game while grinding for our titles. We have a lot to catch up so we have to read a lot and use our brain before buying/selling or doing most of the missions and we love it, but I guess some people rather get rushed at the end game and not bother with the story line and really learn how to play their character. Some of them just want everything handed on a silver platter....

Essence Snow · Feb 17, 2011, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reokuma

6. Small guilds are way > Large ones

The most important this I've learned in GW is that if you have a small guild of people who you consider really good friends it will make the game fun again and that small guild of 7 or 8 people you know personally is worth far more than a guild of 150 or more strangers and 8 jackass recruiters.

I cannot say I agree with this 100%. There are always exceptions. Since a lot of the larger guilds have high turnover, I would tend to agree. However there are many large guilds that do not have the turnover, do not recruit all the time, and have built their numbers over the course of years. Is a group of 6-7 players>a group of 30+ players that behave in the same manner?

It sounds as if you might have had a bad encounter with a "bad" guild. I can assure you not all large guilds are the way you perceive.

Skyy High · Feb 17, 2011, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I'm sorry, but if you make a bunch of characters, it's your responsibility to bring them through the game,

lol...what? Responsibility? Do you even know what that means? How is anyone "responsible" to do anything in a game?

Quote:

it shouldn't grant entitlement to speed runs, and I don't see how it's not lazy to say otherwise. Just my two cents.

Entitlement would be some guy saying "I've beaten the game already, now someone needs to run me through this crap 7 times!" Buying a run is not even close to being "entitled".

Quote:

I wasn't implying that if you make a character, you have an automatic obligation...

No, you didn't imply that. You flat out stated it in no uncertain terms.

Bassma · Feb 17, 2011, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

How do you guys manage to accrue so much animosity?

Well animosity begats animosity

I no longer use my ignore feature I just login and immediately go into do not disturb mode and only come out of it when I'm buying/selling something.

Xiaquin · Feb 17, 2011, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

lol...what? Responsibility? Do you even know what that means? How is anyone "responsible" to do anything in a game?

I clarified. When there's a goal with unavoidable work, an honest person works toward it, or at least contributes in the effort. The responsibility was on participation.

Entitlement would be some guy saying "I've beaten the game already, now someone needs to run me through this crap 7 times!" Buying a run is not even close to being "entitled".

The vibe is feeling that way, actually. It didn't take much to upset those as if I was about to take it away from them.

I get the feeling some here have been buying runs and don't like being criticized. Offense is taken too easily; if you feel your rewards have value with little to no effort directly made, that's all that should matter to you. People are very touchy with words, I go through iterations of posts like Anet does with their builds; I could use a Beta tag for some...

Bassma · Feb 17, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Sadly though running was very popular in the early days of GW and Anet allowed it. Players were running to Drok and getting elite level 20 armor AND grabbing a few elites from Mineral Springs AND getting high end weapons +15>50 then coming back to Ascalon newbie arena and playing unfairly in it with all that gear way ahead and more powerful than what those who played the game correctly had. This was before Anet starting making you gain exp in Arenas cause azzholes were staying in there ruining the newbie PVP arena forever, they even did it in Yak's Bend arena as well.

Allowing running ruined a lot about Guild Wars as a world to play in. It became more of a place to play gamey ways. And boy did they scream when Factions came out and tried to stop runs. LoL I laughed so hard when I found out you had to have keys to get from area to area in the early game. They should have kept that and put it in all chapters an expansions but the whiners who like to cheat the game whined and they took it out in Nightfall and EOTN.

Roen · Feb 17, 2011, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I get the feeling some here have been buying runs and don't like being criticized. Offense is taken too easily; if you feel your rewards have value with little to no effort directly made, that's all that should matter to you. People are very touchy with words, I go through iterations of posts like Anet does with their builds; I could use a Beta tag for some...

I don't know about anybody else but I've never bought a run of any kind. But why does anybody care? I don't get why it's anybody's business what two other players agree to do with their in-game currency and their in-game time. Again, the game is what you make it. So how does it cause me any harm that Joe the Monk buys his way to a survivor title or buys a full EotN tour? It impacts me in no way whatsoever except if I have to endure him spamming "lf EotN tour paying N gold" fifty times a minute in Gunnar's Hold local chat while I'm there.

But that's why I typically turn of local and trade chat anyway.

Swingline · Feb 17, 2011, 09:53 PM // 21:53

I have read most of the posts and it seems all ppl are focusing on is the bad in the game. Personally I blame ANet for the bad parts about GWs today, aside from the way some players act. They really screwed things up with NF and it was the iceberg that sunk the game. Shortly after the release of NF the friends I made over the 2 years of playing the game quit and I even felt the game was no longer what it use to be so I followed some of my friends to other games. I came back after 2 years only because GWs seemed like a new game but surprisingly not much changed.

Skyy High · Feb 17, 2011, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I clarified. When there's a goal with unavoidable work, an honest person works toward it, or at least contributes in the effort. The responsibility was on participation.

Not in a game, bub. If one person wants to get to some area of a game without playing it again, and another person will take money to get them there, no dishonesty is present.

Quote:

I get the feeling some here have been buying runs and don't like being criticized.

Never bought a run, thanks. I just find your position ridiculous.

Quote:

Offense is taken too easily; if you feel your rewards have value with little to no effort directly made, that's all that should matter to you. People are very touchy with words, I go through iterations of posts like Anet does with their builds; I could use a Beta tag for some...

Yeah, not like you could have predicted that calling anyone who ever got a run a lazy, dishonest person who shirks their responsibility would ruffle any feathers or anything...

Xiaquin · Feb 17, 2011, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roen

/snip

I don't take active interest, but the last time I wanted to do a dungeon, I went to the outpost and it was almost entirely composed people sitting on their hands waiting for a runner. That does impact my game play because if it can be run, it will. Why pug with the possible "fail" when someone is guaranteeing fast-rate success?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Not in a game, bub. If one person wants to get to some area of a game without playing it again, and another person will take money to get them there, no dishonesty is present.

We'll agree to disagree, but I was talking about the reward or achievement, not the transaction/service.

Kaleban · Feb 17, 2011, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I don't take active interest, but the last time I wanted to do a dungeon, I went to the outpost and it was almost entirely composed people sitting on their hands waiting for a runner. That does impact my game play because if it can be run, it will. Why pug with the possible "fail" when someone is guaranteeing fast-rate success?

Well what do you expect? Look at the way the game is designed, and especially the Hall of Monuments.

Its a well known issue with MMOs that people are willing to do anything to "distinguish" themselves with pimp gear, titles, etc.

How many roads must a man walk down? And how many of those repeatedly, over and over, for a small chance at a specific item?

GW design creates the problem of running and farming, because unlike a sandbox game like Morrowind where a character's decisions and actions creates the character, a player has to pick a class whose gameplay he may not be entirely familiar with. Compound that with most titles requiring parts of the game to be re-done ad nauseum, and you have people willing to pay to skip boring repetition, which creates a segment of players who provide such a service.

At least ANet recognizes the issue and is creating Embark Beach which will hopefully also include the dungeons and missions in EoTN. It would be basically impossible to re-design GW to create active interest in EVERY area of the game, although Hard Mode does this to some extent, but that usually amounts to good farming spots.

On a personal note, it would be nice if the human race could just get along, learn to live and let live, which would allow such things as games like GW having players who don't judge others on their playing habits, but I think sticking your nose in other peoples' business is part of basic human nature.